022 – Intimacy Alchemists Annabel and Meshach
Intimacy Alchemists Annabel and Meshach
Join Kelli as she interviews Annabel and Meshach, Intimacy Alchemists who have been together for 20 years as we delve into the secrets of profound love, deep connection, and endless intimacy.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- The secrets of a sacred union
- What 1% love truly means, and what you can do to get there
- The two magic statements that help you resolve any conflict
Annabel and Meshach reveal insights on how couples can work together as a team to meet each other’s needs and overcome recurring, harmful interactions. Plus, they’ll share some ideas about how to sprinkle more fun into your relationship.
So, if you’re seeking the keys to a love that knows no bounds, you won’t want to miss this conversation filled with great tips and tools that you can start implementing right away. Get ready to take your relationship to the next level and join us as we embark on a journey of self-discovery, endless love, and intimate adventure.
Head over to https://thespoonerstate.com/ and take their FREE online quiz called The 1% Love Scorecard.
The scorecard enables couples to assess the vitality of their relationship in 5 key areas and then offers a number of takeaways they can use to begin transforming their relationship immediately.
Learn more about their proprietary method, The 1% Lovers Transformation Method™ to transform your relationship Into a sacred union of love in 30 days
Kelli Russell 0:02
Hello, welcome to our Radical Enlightenment Podcast! With me today I’m so excited to speak with Annabel and Meshach of the Spooner State. They’re Intimacy Alchemists and they have been together 20 years, they are going to teach us about the 1% love that it is possible for lovers to have an endless supply of intimacy, connection, fun, adventure, and fulfillment even against all odds. So using their proprietary method, the 1% Lovers transformation method, they empower couples to transform their relationships into sacred unions of the 1% love within 30 days. They have cultivated a profound and ever evolving sacred union, rooted in open communication and mutual growth. Their journey has led to love they affectionately termed 1% love, a love adorned with all that I mentioned before… that endless supply of love connection, intimacy, adventure, fun and fulfillment together. So we want all the juicy details of how we can do this to this sounds amazing. And my husband and I, we’ve also been together for over 20 years. And we’re always, you know, finding ourselves in old patterns and wanting to move beyond those things and experience deeper love, as I am sure that so many of our listeners are finding themselves wanting to improve their relationships or, or some, you know, they’re looking for the right person, but they want to make sure that they’ve gotten rid of all the emotional junk in the trunk, and they’re not doing their old pattern, they want to have the best relationship possible. So I’m sure the tools that you have will help those that are looking for a great relationship as well. So they know what they’re looking for. So, first, I love if you can just tell everybody with that. You know a little bit about your story and what the 1% love is. Yes, Kelli, thank you so much.
Meshach Spooner 2:04
For intro, where do we start? Where do we start, as you see, we’ve been together for 20 years, we’ve known each other for just over that time we met when we were in our mid teens. And we met through music, we’re both musicians, we’re both recording artists. And we’ve been doing that ever since we were in our teens. And we met. And initially we didn’t have a spark, we weren’t together, we were completely platonic, just friends. And then a couple of years down the line, we got together through what we would call by a what would you call it quite a hand of God. Experience, if you will, and then on some sort of trajectory for a while. And then it started going upwards. And we got engaged, we got married, we had our first son, and everything seemed to be going well. And then we just had a major dip. And to fast forward to the point that we had our two sons when they were really young. There was a point at which we were in our front room. Our boys were upstairs, asleep they had they just wanted to sleep, Annabel had just been away on tour singing. And it was just a real terrible, terrible time where we had been like passing ships, where we were past the point of masking, our distaste for each other. We loved each other. But we didn’t really liked each other that much we weren’t really attracted to each other anymore. And it really felt like this is breaking point we’re done. I started having flash forwards of what it would look like to be a co parent. Annabel was my best friend. But we just couldn’t see eye to eye and didn’t know how to make it work at the time. Yeah, it was awful. Again, back and forth, passing shifts, going around in circles wanting to save our marriage, just not having any tools as to how, and you know, in between the housing as well, which didn’t help all the things that you know, the outside influences that couldn’t help did and yeah, we basically couldn’t see eye to eye at all. And then we got to a breaking point where was like, Okay, well either gonna stay together, or we’re going to go our separate ways. And I remember at that point where it was just before we were going to break up, I just had to stop and go, do I love him? And the answer was yes. And because the answer was yes, we had to make sure that we were going to have tools to get us away to something else, something new, something fresh, other than what we were in. So that in our you know, first decade was the beginning of something brand new. Yeah. And it just before we close out this explanation of a brief history. We started to discover at that point, there’s something about putting yourself in an uncomfortable position and really being committed to the breakdown. That leads to the breakthrough and we found that a breakthrough started to occur when we just sat with and danced with the breakdown. We started to discover loads of what we now called sacred union secrets.
Kelli Russell 5:00
which have enabled us to consistently take our relationship to new heights. So, in life so much we go through that circle, there’s a creation, there’s a stabilization, there’s a dissolution, and then there’s space in between. And then there’s that new cycle of growth. So it sounds like you guys, most people would bail, and you guys were in that space, it can be uncomfortable with some deep soul searching to figure things out. And then how did you gather the tools that then you turned into this philosophy that now you’re helping others with? What did you guys do to figure it out? Well, first of all, we sat in a lot of uncomfortability.
Annabel Spooner 5:40
uncomfortably, and we decided to allow that uncomfortability to guide us towards what would work. So it came down to a pure practical level, because we’d run out of love. And now it was about the work. So okay, the way we were communicating, for example, did that work? What now? Because, you know, the love that had carried us for the first 10 years, did we have to hold us? What was our foundation? So we started there, in our new foundation for our sacred union, what’s in it? What are the values and desires that are important to you and me? How are we going to communicate? So we basically began to build our houses at work on on bricks instead of sand, and the sacred union secrets, were having foresight, making sure that the way we view each other as lovers was conducive for the way we were going to communicate. And then we’re gonna build, making sure we had a vision for what we were going to do, making sure the vehicle in which we got to the vision was, you know, something that was sustainable to hold us, and making sure that we put things in like if we got into disagreements.
Kelli Russell 6:47
And so we made sure we could respect each other space and time to grow. So that will stop us falling into these habits again, and we narrowed it down to eight, because those are the eight things that were missing, which were the foundation of foresight, all sorts of things like that, that we needed, we basically poured into our foundation. How did you even know what was missing? How do you even get to that point, because sometimes you just know you’re uncomfortable, or resentful, or you’re pissed off, and you’re not getting along. But how do you know specifically what’s missing? Something major occurred to me was, like a revelation from heaven, if you will. And it was this, it was a real paradigm shift. For me, I had multiple paradigm shifts during that period of breakdown. But this was a particular one that stood out to me. And it was this it was like an audible voice as it were, it was this Annabel does not belong to you. Wow. And when I heard that reverberate within me,
Meshach Spooner 7:48
everything my entire lens changed. And I started to see, first and foremost, Annabel, in not belonging to me, doesn’t need to be with me. She’s not obligated in any way to stay in this relationship.
She is choosing to stay with me in this relationship.
And that was so profound for me because first and foremost, in the context that she’s not obligated, but she’s choosing, it actually demonstrates how profound our love and connection are.
Because she’s not put shackles on her hands and feet.
She’s not being told not you need to do this, you need to do that. No, she sees something in me, which is so worthwhile and so valuable, that she’s committed herself to me. And in spite of the ups and downs, the turbulences, the tests, she’s here, and what that started to demonstrate to me is that
she is so valuable to me, in light of that she
has let me just think of the best way to articulate it.
I can now appreciate her more,
Annabel Spooner 9:02
right, yeah, I remember when Mishach shared that with me, the light bulb went off, I thought, oh my gosh, she doesn’t need to be with me though. So it became about I choose, and I choose to build. And I choose to build on this notion that we don’t have to be together, we choose to be together, and we don’t own each other. And then this freedom opened up. And in that same space, we learn how to be good recipients of each other. So when Jeff was sharing some, you know, truths, and I was sharing, it was the listening of each other now, because our scope had opened up. It was about okay, I’m being a good steward and recipient of this information. And what happens if instead of receiving this information of screaming and crying, I sit and I listen, and I believe what’s being said to me. So yeah, that was that.
Meshach Spooner 9:53
There was that and then the final thing I want to say before I give you an opportunity to share your thoughts Ellie is, when in the context of me seeing that Annabel doesn’t belong to me and I don’t belong to her, I started to see that I want what’s best for her. I want Annabel to be happy, as a living soul to a living soul, I want her to be happy. And I don’t want her happiness to be solely contingent upon
Kelli Russell 10:27
Meshach Spooner 10:30
If I’m committed to her happiness, then I should be happy no matter where she draws her happiness from. And that really enabled me to just be in the discomfort of what it might look like for Annabelle to have another source of happiness other than myself, and really enabled me to appreciate how autonomous and how self governing this woman is, and how she has the authority to do what she wants where and when she wants, but she chooses in the context of our commitment, she chooses to honor me. And it just gave me such a profound level of appreciation for
Annabel Spooner 11:10
and that day, we became committed to each other’s personal growth that was born out of that we were really still to see what was coming in. Yeah, and just build the sacred union secrets. We thought, what’s the year right now that we haven’t recognized before, and it was being committed to each other’s personal growth?
Kelli Russell 11:27
I think I agree 100%, with what you’re saying, because it’s such an inside job to figure out what we need to do to feel inner freedom and to go in the direction that lights us up individually, that can be complimentary to our partner, but it’s definitely an inside job. I where I think people get stuck, though, is they’ll say, Well, I’m committed by the marriage oath, you know, as many people are. We agreed in front of everybody or our families or under God, that we will make this commitment. And those there’s, there are some entanglements there, where they get stuck. And then they feel like, well, even if I’m miserable, I can’t just leave. So I’m just going to stay miserable. But ultimately, I mean, we do have that option. So like, how do we get beyond that thinking? Where they’re like, Well, I agree to my family, and God, and I made a commitment in front of everybody, I have to stay, I don’t have a choice. What would you say to that? Question
Annabel Spooner 12:26
is a fantastic question. I think it’s important to keep going back. And you mentioned, it can be about the self worth, it’s really about going back and seeing what truly makes you happy, and the sort of person that you need to be in order to have that. Sharing that with your lover. And really Hopkins holding continuous space, we talk a lot in 1% love about practicing. So it’s practicing holding the holding of that space, that the concern it’s consolidating, this is what actually makes me happy. And you almost have to phase out all of the noise, because what is is under God, and all of our family and friends is us in the driver’s seat. No one’s doing it for us, when we’re screaming at each other behind closed doors or miss, you know, Misreading each other. It’s just us. So that whole outside influence, almost, it has to get stripped away. And it has to go back to what makes me happy, who do I have to be? And how can I hold space for my lover to continue to be that person? And how do we meet in the middle, and then becomes the fun in finding what that is? You find the joy in the play of finding how to do that. Because now you have a destination? This is what makes me happy in order to be this person. I have to be this way. Can you hold me accountable to that? What makes you happy, we have the same conversation and then we meet in the middle. And so it sounds like
Kelli Russell 13:51
you you to really have like a state of the nation where you sat down and you’re just like, This is what’s missing. This is what we need to do fill it up. This is how we need to support each other. And we’re going to make communication rules. Yeah, of how we honor each other when we speak to one another. That’s amazing that you guys had just figured out to do that. Like,
Annabel Spooner 14:17
just now because I think once you the beautiful thing is because we got to the point where it was like we can just walk away from this now. Yeah, nothing to lose, and also everything to gain. And we gained a brand new perspective.
Kelli Russell 14:34
Because what is what is the 1%? What does that mean?
Meshach Spooner 14:38
In simple term? Yeah. 1% love is the type of love that people look at in a couple for instance, and say, how are they so in love? How are they so connected? How are they so in tune? What do you mean they’ve been together for so long? What have they done to do that? What do I need to do with bilabial in order to obtain such loving characteristics as it were, that’s what it is, in simple terms, what does it take to get that? That is really the question, right? To experience such a love, in simple terms, first and foremost, what it takes is commitment. And that commitment is to commitment to self work, commitment to showing up as your best and highest self, every single day, even when you falter. Even when you fall, you get back up and you say, No, I’m going to be the best version of myself. And then also a commitment to your lover mirroring that if they profess to be committed to this, such because if they’re not committed to self work, then a whole, there’s a conflict there. There’s not reciprocity there.
Annabel Spooner 15:53
And also, it is doing what we’ve seen through every any athlete in the world, any politician that does really well, they are willing to do what the 99% of people don’t do. And that is when it gets hard. They push through, you know, they dig deep, they go wide, they go high. And what we have seen is that it’s so easy. We’ve seen a lot of people just go, Oh, it’s just not working. It’s not working. We’re constantly trying to reframe, sit like, how do we get out of this? And it’s not a glossing over of, oh, you know, we love each other so much. It’s like, how do we look at this another way? What else can we do now that we haven’t seen? And we’re open to something that is unfamiliar to us being the breakthrough? Yeah, we’re doing what 99% of people are not doing and that belongs to 1%. And that’s where the name came from.
Kelli Russell 16:42
So how do people make a breakthrough that can mirror some of the things that you have done?
Meshach Spooner 16:51
I think there are a plethora of ways in which you can “attack” this, I would say, first and foremost, being open minded. Having a growth mindset. If you’ve got this fixed mindset, and you’re closed off to possibility, you may as well call it quits now. Or simply be willing to stay in somewhat of a tokenistic relationship, somewhat of a mundane relationship that goes around in this vicious cycle. It may not even be a passion fueled relationship where sparks are flying anger, disagreements, it may not even be there, that it may just be completely mundane and boring. And you first and foremost have to be growth mindset based or open minded, I would say that that’s really where it begins. Because it’s only having that growth mindset that enables one to see what’s possible on the other side of doing the work.
Annabel Spooner 17:47
Yeah. And then the other thing is just to be willing. So the open mindedness and the willing is like, okay, with my open mind, and I’m open to seeing things in a way that I’ve never been before. I have to now be willing to implement what is coming up, I have to be willing to build a foundation, I have to be willing to hold myself accountable to build myself up and share myself with the lover and vice versa. So it’s the open mindedness and the willing, because again, it’s it isn’t a walk in the park, we’ve had to cry through this to get, you know, 20 years later. So it’s
Kelli Russell 18:23
so true, because my background is in marriage and family therapy. And often when couples would get to the point where they’re seeing someone like me, one of them has already checked out. And really they’re looking at it because they want to get the therapists collusion, is it okay? That, basically that I can leave you usually like they want, they want you to be on their side so that they can say, See, I knew I was right. And then usually, you know, it falls apart. So to be willing to take personal accountability, even if you think it’s the other person’s fault. And to have the curiosity or to think like, How can I how can we get to something different, rather than a closed mindset, like you need to change or this is over, that’s never going to work? It has to have two people that are invested and both willing to look inside. Even if they’re sending blame outward, they have to shoot those arrows inward, right?
Annabel Spooner 19:17
Meshach Spooner 19:19
And it’s not easy as it nevertheless, it’s not. Are you going to play the victim everywhere in every area and point fingers at everyone else? Instead of looking inwardly in saying, wait a minute, there’s a pattern here? Yeah. Because ultimately, these the way these things show up in our relationships show up elsewhere in our lives. Yes, yes, true patterns, their blueprints which are psychological, which are running in the background, right? And if they don’t show up in their relationship or relationship, they’re showing up somewhere else. So we all are going to have to look in the mirror and say, Wait a minute, what do I need to take ownership for
Annabel Spooner 19:56
and it is a lot of looking. It’s a lot of looking and Being okay with what you’re seeing is what you’re seeing. And like you said, even if it’s, you know, the blame is on one side, there’s always room to look at how we contribute to what’s going on. Because there are two people in this 100%. There’s an energy that is being shared, whether 80% over here and 20 percents over there. We’re both in this. So how are we both contributing to what’s currently in the space?
Kelli Russell 20:24
Right? So what are some really specific things that couples could do, to start laying a foundation to start getting a different mindset to start coming together intimately in a way that is different than before?
Meshach Spooner 20:42
Well, the first sacred union secret, the first of eight is Foundation. And by Foundation, what we mean is identifying your values, your needs, your desires, and being clear on what you’re committed to. That is the springboard values by values. What we mean, in simple terms is things that are important to you.
Kelli Russell 21:04
Yeah. And it could be different person to person. So we have to agree that we’re going to honor those differences, right.
Meshach Spooner 21:10
100% 100%. And I suppose there’s a distinction between a value which is a deal breaker, and a value, which is a non deal breaker, right? Was that which is important to you may be something that you’re willing to compromise on. But then there may be another thing that’s important to you, that is an absolute non negotiable, and takes going to this foundation laying level and saying, right, in practical terms, right, what are your values? And do a search online? What What are values? What is it that people hold dear to them? At a core level? All right, which one of these values is yours? Which one of these things do you find? It just shows up as important to you wherever you go, that that is something that you can identify as a core value? Am I willing to compromise on this? Or are you willing to compromise on this? Absolutely not? Well, yeah. If you’re not willing to compromise on that value, and I want you to compromise on it. You do before you begin, you have to really be clear on those core values. That’s the first thing and then as a byproduct, your needs and desires, what is it? And I want to say this before we continue, and I think before I continue explaining this that these needs and desires particularly can change over time. Yeah, we always talk about is season, the seasons that we’re and the cycles that we go through, we are not the same as 20 years ago, when we first got together, we are completely different on many levels. Do the core the same core values still exist? Predominantly? Yes. Or primarily? Yes, but we’ve changed so much. We have completely different needs now. So we always seasonally have to go back to the drawing board and have a check in?
Kelli Russell 22:51
Yeah, how often would you recommend something like that, going back to that drawing board, like once a year,
Annabel Spooner 22:57
if you if you want to look at it kind of like methodically, you could do it every quarter. But what you can feel within a relationship, when there’s a wind of change. Sometimes it is saying, You know what, I’m not that person anymore. I’m actually this person. And it’s celebrating that. And it’s like, Okay, with this person I am now talk about, okay, what do they want. So just so because what can happen with love is is you end up being in love with some your lover from the last iOS the last season. And you just, you know, you’re like, I don’t know them, they chose a stranger in my house. It’s like, this new person with you. And we say with every season of yourself, bring your lover with you. That’s how we kind of cite it and talk good you can feel it’s a little bit you know, you can feel that that reaction to certain things isn’t the same, right? Sometimes for yourself, you won’t know. And so I actually don’t like talk to your lover and just I used to like this. I really don’t think I do anymore. I used to like this way we were I really don’t think it works. And there’s workability versus what’s wrong and right. In your sacred union. It’s not about what’s wrong and right. It’s about what works doesn’t work, that you are a certain way now and you’re not any more. It’s about what works for you. Which is why it’s a sacred union because it belongs to you. So both of you is nothing to do with anyone else
Kelli Russell 24:20
correct. Now, what do you do if let’s say one partner wants to have sex seven times a week, and one wants to have sex one time a week? And so you sit down and you lay out the you know, this is a value for me or this is what I want? Would they need to come to a compromise that’s in the middle and they both need to agree to that or how would somebody overcome a discrepancy like that?
Annabel Spooner 24:43
That’s the purpose why we had this one of our love languages physical touch and the other one isn’t. And we had to really sit down and consolidate a middle ground. And the way we did that was to find a happy medium of You know how many times during the week there was going to be physical intimacy, and then the couple it with, you know, the other lover, something that was important to them? If we’re going to work together, can we go to, you know, another location to work? X amount of times a week. So now we both got something we got to play and find out, okay, well, you want this, that’s too much. Let’s meet in the middle. I’m happy to do this. And it really does take me in the middle. And also, whilst we’re at it, this is important to me, where can you meet me in the middle, and it’s any becomes like a play, it becomes like a playful thing? Yeah, because the lens is, I’m going to constantly find ways to see what’s important to my lover. So it is it is about finding a middle ground. Some people say compromise, I just say finding because it is a discovery.
Kelli Russell 25:48
Then I have clients, I have clients where they agree on this compromise, they’ll even put it in their schedule. And then if the other one doesn’t do it, or they say, Oh, well, the day got away with me or I just got too tired, they’ll make up an excuse. And then the other partner doesn’t hold them accountable. And then the thing falls apart and doesn’t happen. So what would you recommend to that? Like if one partner just kind of backs out of the deal? And the other one isn’t calling them out on it to say, hey, tonight’s the night, right, you know, what, what do you recommend? Work requests? We
Annabel Spooner 26:22
say? Great question. So there’s two things that we do, we, we’ve got some of the core book ending. And for the beginning, and the end of the day, we have a mantra, which is I love you, and we’re on the same team. On the day it in that mantra, and we call it bookending. Because essentially, it’s start at the end, it reminds us what we’re committed to. Yeah. Other thing is, you know, a saying that we have is I’m practicing my sacred union. So if you miss it, and maybe you call out your lover on it, when they’re talking to you about how they feel they’ve missed it, whilst they’re whilst they’re talking. You practice letting them land. Because as we know, in sacred union, sometimes no love is going off. You just want them you cut them off, you cut them off, because emotions can get the better of us. Yeah, it’s, it’s you, you get to press reset, and you get to practice. So it is okay, we’ve missed this target. And now I’m practicing my sacred union by listening to you, I’d like us to press reset. And you can press reset as many times as possible. Four times seven times get up eight. It’s that and I think it’s making it okay to reset. Knowing that once you’re practicing, because you’ve allowed yourself to reset you almost like allow you allow a buffer for it to go wrong. Or not to work.
Kelli Russell 27:39
Yeah. Would you do it that night? Or like the next day, the next morning? Like when, when whenever
Annabel Spooner 27:45
I think, you know, there’s nothing like the present, the next day is great, because maybe you need you know, we also talk about practicing a pause. Yeah, it’d be it’s like, Okay, let’s start again, tomorrow. And maybe it’s like, okay, let’s give each other five minutes, and then maybe let’s find our way in. So it’s, again, you set the terms, but it’s having that reset, and knowing that it is a practice, you’re practicing this sacred union.
Meshach Spooner 28:09
And in addition to that, I would say, with Annabelle, citing our mantra, I love you, and we’re on the same team. I like that we have that front and center that you are on the same team attempting to achieve the same target. And if you have created this compromise of a target, to have sex, know that a bit doesn’t happen. That is not an excuse to now turn on each other and act as if your opposition No, we’re a team writing where as a team that we falter here, right? We set the goal too high that we set the expectation too high. Right? Is it that we the expectation we set was actually adequate, but we’re not setting up other things in place elsewhere to ensure that we can honor that commitment? Is it the fact that actually, now that we’ve set up that expectation? On reflection, we don’t really need that? Yeah, actually, now that we’ve set it up as an expectation, and we’ve, we’ve demonstrated that we care enough to say, Yep, I’m going to do that for you, because I love you. Maybe that’s all that’s required. Maybe we can then just go back to spontaneity, because I see that you thought enough of me to consider my request. So there are many nuances. And it’s about this is where the self work comes in. The more work we do on ourself themselves, the more intuitive we’re going to become, the more patient we’re going to become, the more uneasy we will be the most self fulfilled, we’ll be right.
Annabel Spooner 29:43
And again, that thing of practice alleviates that whole thing from you didn’t do it. You didn’t do it. You it’s a practice when we watch your child practicing and they fall over and they hurt themselves. We don’t worry because we know that they’re going to do it again until they get it right And we need to allow ourselves that same grace in our sacred union, we’re practicing this out one day, it’s going to be easy. But right now is a practice. And it’s remembering the mantras, and that we’re practicing and what we’re committed to, and that we’re a team. And those things are all part of the foundation. And your sacred union is malleable, because you’ll get the both of you that are putting into it. It’s so malleable. And I think when we get stuck to, you know, like I said, we get into the space of blame. It’s like, you know, if we’re a team, we don’t, you know, we give the constructive criticism, we consolidate and we keep it moving.
Meshach Spooner 30:39
Yeah. And I want to say one more thing. Sorry, Kelli. It is still in my brain. You’ve got it. There, it will come back to me.
Kelli Russell 30:53
Yeah, maybe about being on the same team. Or I just like that analogy. It’s like, let’s say it’s a football team. And the next day, they’re reviewing the tape, and they’re like, Well, you know, this play didn’t quite go right, the way we have set it up. So we are on the same team. So what do we need to do to ensure that it can happen next time? Or do we need to recalibrate something so that it can, right? So there’s a constant like coming together to figure it out? But it’s not me against you? It’s let’s figure this out? Do we still want this goal? You know, do we need to get a sitter for the kids? Do we need to make sure that you’re not so stressed out or working so hard that you have no energy left? So how can we support you in that? So it’s like figuring out what’s needed to continue to move forward, or reassessing and see, do we still want this? Right? Absolutely,
Meshach Spooner 31:39
absolutely. And it’s just going back to what I was going to say, is being so mindful of the fact. And again, this comes with the self work, but being so mindful of the fact that if you’re having a breakdown in your relationship, that is the gateway to the breakthrough. So if there’s a recurring breakdown, all right, we’ve got to now step back, take some time to be still as teammates or team members and thinking, and then look at this and say, Wait, there’s something going on here. There’s, there’s a continuous cycle where we keep breaking down. There’s a breakthrough here, we just work together to figure out what the what the breakthrough is, because on the other side of this is going to be an expansive world, which will blow our minds. Yeah.
Annabel Spooner 32:24
And we don’t often when we get stuck in our cycles, we can’t see past you just got to, you’ve got to be open to considering your breakthrough is not what you think it is. You know, and the very things that keep coming up, we think of we use the analogy of a spider, how’d you get rid of cobwebs? Do you clean the cobwebs? Or do you kill the spider? I’m sorry, for any
Kelli Russell 32:46
I do love I do take the spiders outside myself. And
Annabel Spooner 32:52
I get Misha to do it. Yeah. Spider and relocate the spider and kill you. And then no more cobwebs. So it’s that and sometimes the spiders in our life, we haven’t stopped to look at where they are. And we’re trying to continue with the cobwebs. And it’s like, where is the spider? The spider he is? We don’t speak to each other nicely. Right? You know, and it’s like, okay, we need to now relocate that. And we look at things as opportune moments, which is an opportunity to make this a learning moment. Okay, so instead of us being back and forth with each other, it’s like, right, this is the opportunity to look at it differently. Right now. And we do that in real time.
Kelli Russell 33:37
So what do you do if you are taking the time you have two people that are into it, they want to be open to possibility and be curious, and they find themselves stuck in a pattern. So you have two willing participants, but they just can’t figure it out. They’re like, we’re always stuck in this pattern. We’re doing the inner work. I just can’t figure out a way out of this. Do you have any signposts or questions they could ask or something that could help them see it in a different way? Because I think this is where people get stuck. This is where me and my husband gets stuck for sure to speak personally. It’s like we’re trying we just can’t figure it out. You know?
Meshach Spooner 34:12
Yeah. Yeah. No, do you have something I did? I was
Annabel Spooner 34:17
gonna say so the one of the things that you can do, which goes back to the spider analogy is with the feeling that comes up based on whatever the subject is that keeps tripping you up. When was the first time you felt like that? I guess there’s a version of emotional recall. But you’ve got to look at that. Because sometimes the thing that started that behavior, that pattern started in a space, that’s nothing to do with your sacred union. Yeah. And you’ve just carried it with you, and it’s sat in the back of your mind and here it is showing up at the forefront of your sacred union. And it’s sitting uh, some of it is sitting and looking. I think you know what the first time that happened, somebody spoke To me a certain way, and I felt like from that moment forward, I’d never allow anyone to disrespect me. So I’m sure. And you know, and when you look at an end, it’s such a relief when you find this actually nothing to do with your sacred unit is something you’ve brought in, you know, and you’ve not even known, sometimes is asking a lot of questions. When was the first time you felt that thing? So it’s identifying, okay, the place to keep getting tripped up is when I don’t know, when we’ve got our friends around. Or when we’re talking about money, or when we’re talking about six. When was the first time what am I feeling? I feel tired and frustrated. And it makes me feel angry, when’s the first time I felt that, and it’s being a good recipient and sitting with your lovers through that thing? And then knowing where it shows up? Oh, actually, this shows up when you speak to me a certain way, or we go to a certain place, and it’s now looking at okay, now that we know that how can we reframe this, so it doesn’t trip us up? How can we reframe this, so it doesn’t stunt our growth? What can we do now with this? How can we play and remodel and this thing? So it’s it’s that it’s it’s finding the first place is? What’s it called? Not walking backwards? Reverse Engineering, right?
Kelli Russell 36:19
Yeah. Oh, that makes perfect sense. Yeah. So how do you reframe?
Annabel Spooner 36:25
you reframe going? Okay, I will, I like to think of it is you look at the thing, you’ve located it, and you say, Okay, thank you, I see you, I don’t need you anymore in this space, actually no, no longer require services. And in this, you’ve got to talk to it, and then say, in place of this thing, now, I would like to transmute this thing into this. I like to transmute this thing into power, instead of maybe cowardice instead of maybe sadness. And I’d like to do that in this area by, you know, being open to power. And you practice that, yeah, and just keeping that energy in the space through your words, I’m going to choose instead of this, this sadness, instead of this small necessarily this contention, I’m practicing this being a powerful moment. And you keep saying it, you keep practicing it, it might feel awkward and might feel silly at first, but you practice it. And because you’ve got your your lover now on site in your team, is that, okay? This thing’s coming up. Again, I’m feeling this thing, I’m letting you know, I’m feeling this thing in real time. And I’d like to replace it with power. And it’s having that vulnerable kind of like, moment here.
Kelli Russell 37:41
And your partner might see it before you do. Because if you’re in a triggered reaction, you’re not really, you’re not really there anymore. So it might take the space holder of your partner to go, I think that thing is happening right now. You know, once you’ve identified what that is, this is resonating so much with me, we do this process, my husband and I are subconscious change facilitators. And there’s one where you look at the, the inner critic or the inner protector. And usually that’s protecting you from whoever was your most vigorous critic in your life, so that you start talking to yourself a little bit more strict than that. So you can keep yourself safe. So we go back in time and see what part of you is that protecting. And if if we know that that critic or that protector part is trying to help, and we go back into that place, and re you know, give that it’s usually a child part what it means, like maybe you just need to be witness, maybe you need to be heard, maybe I need to speak up for you in a way that you couldn’t when you were little. And then we go back to that critic or that protector and change our relationship to it. If you didn’t have to work so hard to do that, then what would you like to do instead? So some people will say, Well, I’d rather be that part of me be my social organizer, or my biggest cheerleader or something. There’s also this other process we do called a stress transformation where you take some harmful thing, and you transform it into your desired outcome. So it could be like peaceful, non attached, letting go, feeling secure, moving on forgiving, and moving people into that transformative place by choice. So this is totally like hitting all those bells for me where it’s like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So you’re doing that in real time. You’re like, that reminds me of this time where I needed that to protect myself and I don’t want that anymore. So now I’m going to call in my personal power, my empowerment, my self confidence, so that I don’t have to feel that you’re walking all over me because you’re not. So I can reclaim that last part. And then that can transform the entire relationship. I love this application.
Annabel Spooner 39:53
Well, that’s so powerful, what you share, and then love we just love that. It’s amazing and the byproduct of All of that is taking your past out of your future. Yeah, what we say to some of our clients is we’re creating a new line, your line of thinking, a new line of doing things, and you’re the person that started it, you get to do you get to be the author of that. And it’s such an impactful thing, empowering thing that you’ve done within your sacred union. So what you said is just so delicious,
Meshach Spooner 40:25
amazing work. What I wanted to say, in addition, that came to mind just prior to, to explanation Kelly is this, one of the principles of habit formation is doing small things, often not doing big things in chunks, and then leaving them for a while. So as it relates to practice, this is a daily applicable set of processes where you’re doing, you’re just you keep it simple, keep it as simple as possible. Remember, with the book ending, you are on the same team, keep that front and center and do things in a simple way. Be patient with each other, show each other grace, grace, show yourself grace, and just simply add, add a little extra every time. And that’s gonna be there like building blocks, aren’t they? It’s one block on the other on the other until you get this edifice. So that’s what I wanted to say. In addition, it’s beautiful.
Kelli Russell 41:19
So if we were going to give maybe one more tip or tool that people can take with them, what do you think is something else that would be a priority?
Meshach Spooner 41:29
One of the other sacred union secrets is fun.
Kelli Russell 41:33
Yeah, people don’t have enough to have that these days, everyone’s all stressed out, we’re just trying to survive. But so that’s all it becomes about, you know,
Meshach Spooner 41:42
literally, literally in survival mode. And that becomes a vicious cycle. So by fun, we define that as injecting playfulness and novelty into your relationship. Especially if you’ve been together for quite some time, the novelty wears off, the playfulness goes out of the window, and the responsibilities of life become the priority. And then you forget how you got started. That energy in the beginning was excitement, high vibration, resonance, playfulness. And what we always say is this, if you are the 2.0 version of yourself now that you literally are the person that you want it to become 1015 years ago, how is it possible that you are in a lesser state in your relationship? Now we know why that is? It’s because of because the novelty wears off. We know about the psychological effects of familiarity and all these other things
Kelli Russell 42:41
when we build up those resentments. Right,
Meshach Spooner 42:46
right? Absolutely. But on the flip side of that, because there’s always polarity, right, there’s always another side of the coin, we are so much more substantial. Now as beings, we actually have the ability to dwarf what we experienced in our early years in our relationship. Yeah, by the application.
Annabel Spooner 43:02
And the other thing that is really important, ask each other questions. Yes, in the realm of play the realm of rainforests, you know, you can ask them, you know, if you if you had no idea where to start was your best friend when you were younger? What made you happy? You know, who’s the first person that you kissed? And you work forward? You know, today, it was like, you know, what, what would? What is what’s something that I did today that will really make you smile attorney one or excite you asking a lot of questions, because with all the seasons that we have in ourselves, because we’re not linear, we changed. So asking those questions really reveals a lot to us, the person that’s asking the question, and the recipient of the of the question, asking questions is so, so, so important. And then another thing I’d say, to all the lovers out there is to apologize quickly and thoughtfully. And there is
Kelli Russell 43:58
a question I have. So I wanted to ask, you know, like, how, how do we move through that resentment or that anger? You’ve been in a fight? And you want to heal from that? So I’d love to spend a little bit addressing that.
Annabel Spooner 44:13
Yes. So what we have done and we touched on it earlier, probably prematurely was, we always say said it was not just for sex. So if we’re getting into a heated discussion, we have a really odd word as you would that takes you out if it’s getting, you know, to the realms where it’s just getting disrespectful or we know no one lover, you know, do we share so as this giraffe, it’s giraffe. Because it’s just ridiculous. And you know, tensions are high. It’s like, you know what, baby giraffe?
Kelli Russell 44:48
It’ll break you out of it. Just that word.
Annabel Spooner 44:52
Giraffe, what’s encompassed in giraffe is I see, I can recognize within myself that I know control, I recognize within yourself that you’re going to be triggered, or, you know, the emotions are high. So let’s put a breath in. And giraffe also means that we take a breath, and we have to come back to it. And what we’re coming back to is not a bonfire, we’re coming back to a gentle little candle that is malleable, and that is workable. So there’s also that and then it’s also bullet pointing what it is that we need. What it is that’s upset us, there was a delicious moment where we had a disagreement. And we girafft and we came and went away. And then we check to see what every single time you want. Make it ridiculous as possible. Yeah.
Kelli Russell 45:41
And then it turned into a verb. That’s what I like. I love that.
Annabel Spooner 45:46
We both have to respect the giraffe. And Misha came back and he said, this is this is what came up that upset me. Yeah, this is what I think needs to be done was
Meshach Spooner 46:00
it and prior to me, given the bullet points, I actually prefaced it by. I can’t remember exactly what I said. But it would have been something like I love you. On the same team, yes. Right here it has here. It has nothing to do with me pointing fingers or giving you playing the blame game, I just need to share what came up for me. And why I think what took place doesn’t work. It’s x. It’s why it’s Zed. Yeah, I’ve shared everything that I want to share, baby do you want to share with me
Annabel Spooner 46:30
and then also it makes one once we’ve done that, it allows you to see what the issue is, and it’s not you versus each other, it now becomes you versus the thing, this thing didn’t work. And it’s getting between us. So it’s about that. And then of course, if you’re on the receiving end, it’s about being the good practicing being a good recipient. Right, my love is talking now, about one of them. And I’m not gonna interrupt them. My sacred union, and it’s that constant dialogue that’s going on. Because your, your foundation because of your sacred union. And it’s practicing that. And you know, and it’s not in its we call catching the snowball, before it comes becomes an evidence.
Kelli Russell 47:13
And I what was so important too, is I think the thing that I miss and my relationship is what do I need now? Because it’s so much like, let’s explain where it went wrong or how I feel. And I think like in my own relationship, we’re really good about that, like the eye messages and speaking with your personal experience, but we haven’t taken it to the next step. What do I need now? In which gets you in to the solution orientation? And I think that’s what’s missing in a lot of discussion. Right, that Lodz
Annabel Spooner 47:44
oats and it’s so, so important, because sometimes the solution isn’t imminent. Its way and I think, is also to acknowledge that, what do I need now? I don’t know. But give me time we’re gonna come back is staying in that constant dialogue about that staying in communication? And it is also asking, what is the solution here? And literally putting heads together? Yeah,
Kelli Russell 48:07
totally. Yeah, you’re you might be able to come up with a solution together, even if I don’t know the answer, then maybe we both can figure something out, that would be a solution. So again, it we’re on the same team instead of you against me. So
Meshach Spooner 48:23
quite often, we as individuals, are attempting to do everything in our own strength, and attempting to solve all the problems and be the savior figure when in fact, that becomes a mainstay in one sacred union or one’s relationship, that actually starts to divide, because now no longer vulnerable, you know, not now, not now no longer connected, you no longer share with each other in the way that you could do or maybe did do. In fact, being in communication and sharing what the problems are and what the issues are. And making two heads better than one is really the fundamental issue here. It’s always going to be better when we’re working together than when we’re working separately, you know, and that takes
Annabel Spooner 49:11
a lot of framing and conversation. So often, me shackle myself when I’m sharing something that’s quite vulnerable, because sometimes we can miss it with our lover. They actually being vulnerable, and we, we just think maybe they’re being odd or too sensitive. Like there’s times where rechecks framed it for me, and I’ve gone Oh, okay. He’s been this horrible moment. Let me listen, you know, because, you know, that, especially when you get into the place where you allow your ego to enter, and you’re like, you know, we always say that moment where you could crush your lover. Yeah, don’t do it. Yeah, practice because it’s so easy when your lovers right here, especially if you feel like they’ve done you wrong, right, crush them, but because of the sacred union that will continue after the disagreement or the opportune moment. This is where intimacy has been billed bill and we, this is where we’re meant to, we don’t miss it. Your Lover says, I’m going to share something and it’s quite vulnerable for me share this, you’re literally this is it you’re, you’re in the incubation of you building the intimacy, this is it right now. And once we catch it, it’s so beautiful. Because then your lover is got space to flow. And you’ve got space to hold them to hold space for them to be there for them. So once you’re going along and everything’s fine again, you’re now closer, you’ve built that intimacy. And that’s where the alchemy happens,
Meshach Spooner 50:39
you know, if we can reframe our sacred union as a world of intimacy as opposed to intimate intimacy being a part component of the world, that really helps because then we’re not compartmentalizing and seeing right intimacy is here. Intimacy is that time of the day or this time of the day, and this action is what constitutes intimacy, as opposed to every moment with your lover is intimacy, every single one. If you’re part of the same team,
Kelli Russell 51:09
that’s a lot of pressure, but it’s
Annabel Spooner 51:14
practicing Yeah. Give yourself permission to practice.
Kelli Russell 51:19
Yes. How much time do you allow? Once giraffe has been called? Is it 10 minutes? Is it the next day? Do you just discuss when is a good time to come back together on screen?
Annabel Spooner 51:32
We try not to let a day go by
Meshach Spooner 51:34
Yeah, it really does. It will depend on what we’ve got going on in the day. So for instance, if we have a giraffe moment, and Annabelle has to go out and be somewhere, yeah, the conversation will happen when she gets back, for instance. So it may be half an hour, an hour or two. But usually what happens is, if Annabelle goes out, or I go out, during the draft period, we will quite soon after sending a message here and say I love you. We’re on the same team. I’m not feeling great right now. But we are going to work it out something to that effect. And
Annabel Spooner 52:14
that’s what’s so good. We’re having the mantra because you know, especially depending on the intensity of the misunderstanding, right, the last thing you want to say is I love you, I know that you just you slide it in there, you just got to think of it. Then you’re coming, you’re not coming back to a burning house as it was you’ve kind of like you’ve put in your job. Now you’re coming back to basically, I can see how you know you can stop that awkward conversation and then I’ll get out. But yeah, it’s getting that in his catching this is catching the snowball before it becomes an avalanche. Yeah. And sometimes if you have the message that will voicemail it, it’s in the space. So it’s utilizing all the things it’s not necessarily you know, the last thing you want after a heated thing is you know, to say I love you so much. It’s not that it is sometimes sending the message. I love you we’re on the same team be right back.
Meshach Spooner 53:10
Yeah, and when we do come together again to have the conversation usually would look something like this, you’re ready to talk now usually it will be said with a slight smile. Because we live in the context of our our life and our vision for our life. This is so small, it’s so minut and you do
Annabel Spooner 53:29
have to kind of like forward thing is like is this going to be a big deal in a year? And if it isn’t great and if it is fine now we’ve got a focal point to focus on everything is to work towards you’re good at or you don’t know something and it’s fine or you do know something and you’ve got something to focus on. You’ve got a you’ve got something to work together towards.
Kelli Russell 53:55
Absolutely. And then one last thing before we close up is just what are some more ways to have fun. I love the questions that you asked those were beautiful questions and even have like books of questions people can buy on Amazon if you’re wondering I don’t know what questions to ask. So they have like list of deep questions and stuff. But aside from that, what are other ways to bring fun into the relationship?
Annabel Spooner 54:15
I personally love it. I love his bucket list is so important. Okay. But the most ridiculous mundane risky things on there you write it down and just keep going back to it and cross them off. Just keep going back to them or bucket lists lovers bucket lists.
Kelli Russell 54:37
An example like what would be on yours.
Annabel Spooner 54:39
Oh my gosh, we did it the other day. We were tourists. We live in London and we wanted to get there. We’ve got a river boat service. So we’ve got our losses. And there’s a river boats that it’s an Uber boat basically. And we took that from one end of London to the other. And it was like we got to sit
Meshach Spooner 54:59
during the school hours. When the school run off, it
Annabel Spooner 55:05
was so lovely, we’ve got all dressed up, and then the other, something to eat. And it was just so nice. And then sometimes it’s like Meshach’s got an obscure taste in film. He likes really old, sort of swashbuckling films. Like movies. Rom Com. So it’s like, Okay, what’s this film that he likes?
Meshach Spooner 55:29
Then there’s the more provocative stuff like shoot per day. Yeah, let’s make it provocative. Let’s make it sexy. Let’s make it fun, this, have a truth or dare moment now. People will folks may not be in that particular space in their relationship. And that’s cool. Let’s leave that for another time. But if you are in this space, when there is that connection, where you’re firing on all cylinders, or you’ve had a breakthrough, this is the time to now add that getting in to make it that bit more quote, unquote, spicy. So to do that, it could be a moderate, or mild truth to that, or it could be a bit more extreme. And it’s about talking about fantasies as well. What are your fantasies baby like? Particularly if you’ve reestablished what your needs and desires all? Let’s really go there with we’re in this for life together, we’re on the same team. So at the very least, let’s share what our fantasies are, even if we quote unquote, can’t act upon them. And that just adds a mystique and an provocativeness, and an excitement to
Annabel Spooner 56:28
enrich. And we’ve got one more and because we’ve got a midlife menu, which is kind of a list of things you can do for your lover, we do blind dating, so we pretend we have everything about our lives is real. So our children are friends, but we haven’t met each other. So we either leave separately or together and is like we’ve just met. So this is a
Meshach Spooner 56:50
real live date night scenario. Going on a date night, we’re leaving the house separately, in separate directions. And we end up and we Oh, good to see you. It’s great to finally meet you that literally, we roleplay this first day with a second date. And
Annabel Spooner 57:14
you get to see who your lover is you ask you ask again loads of questions, and you say, Oh, is he worthy another day? And then you know, at the end of the night, you taking them home or not? So that’s line dating in your in your sacred unions, like do you
Kelli Russell 57:31
play pretend roles for that? Or do you go kind of like the honest answer or do you make up different answers if on that date,
Meshach Spooner 57:40
I think leave it to your discretion you know, the real thing I think at the end of the day is the principle is playfulness. Let’s have fun with this. There’s there’s nothing stopping us from being playful and having fun business literally nothing stopping us other than our own “egotism”. So aside, actually, let’s just enjoy ourselves. Yeah,
Annabel Spooner 58:03
changing names square wig. Yeah, I just go to another part of town that you haven’t explored yet. Change it all up.
Kelli Russell 58:11
Yeah. I love it. Oh, my gosh, I got so much value from this discussion, as I’m sure our listeners did, too. I want to hear a little bit more about the program that you guys are doing. Yeah. And do you have a scorecard and a free online quiz that you wanted to offer our listeners? So could you talk about that?
Meshach Spooner 58:31
Yes. So it’s called the 1% Love Scorecard Quiz. It is an assessment, which ultimately tells you what the health of your relationship is, it is done within five minutes, maybe 10 minutes, it could be up to 15 minutes, but usually it will take a bit shorter. And it’s also five key areas. So your answer and 20 questions based on the five key areas and at the end, you’ll get your results and it will show you which of the five zones you’re in. So you’ll either be at the foundational zone, or which is the first zone all the way up to the fifth zone, which is sacred union of 1% love. And those results don’t stop there, you then get three takeaways for each of the five key areas that you can immediately start to implement in your in your life. And then you know, our proprietary method is the 1% lover’s transformation method. So that’s the 30 day pathway that our clients will come through. And from day one to day 30 will work on reengineering their relationship so that it becomes a sacred union of 1% love.
Kelli Russell 59:31
How do you work with people? Is it one on one or in groups? Or is it an online program? What’s it like it one
Meshach Spooner 59:37
line is online? We do one to one sessions within the method okay which via zoom and then we have pre recorded virtual transformation program which is a 30 day program has it has daily lessons and then daily love assignments. And then we also have a series of enhancement resources like the midnight menu that Annabelle mentioned. We also have within the enhancement resources we Have over 10 hours of VIP group coaching that we recorded from a previous group coaching class. So that’s what makes it up and then we’ve got also some some other exciting not not things that we don’t even share about when people get on it’s more of a surprise. So this is something to look out for and be excited for, you know,
Kelli Russell 1:00:22
awesome where can they find that quiz and more about your program?
Meshach Spooner 1:00:27
thespoonerstate.com. The Spooner State is our handle on social media as well. That’s got the scorecard quiz, you can click through, you can do the quiz. And then also, it’s got our method on there and how you can learn a bit more about our method as well.
Kelli Russell 1:00:51
Fantastic. I’ll put in the show notes as well. So people can just click on it right there. And it’s just an honor and a privilege to meet the both of you. I’m very inspired and feeling very enlivened and very positive. So I just love all these percolating ideas after speaking with you. So I just wanted to thank you so much for being on as a guest.
Annabel Spooner 1:01:15
It was a pleasure, such a pleasure. And just thank you for sharing your space and your wisdom with us. It’s been so wonderful for us, Kelli. So thank you so much.
Kelli Russell 1:01:23
Oh, absolutely. All right, everybody. Let’s go take that quiz right now. We’ll see you next time. Bye!